Some reminders before we dive in: There are three different kinds of comments you need to make in these online discussions in order to earn full credit. The most effective comments in this kind of forum are concise, clear, and supported. Try to make shorter, separate comments for each of your thoughts that allow other people to digest and respond to your ideas.
Online discussion #2 is open for comments February 5-11. Make sure that you email your WordPress user name to music.drjones@gmail.com so that I can give you credit for participating. An overview of these assignments and how you’ll be graded is available here: Online participation overview – Spring 2018.
Most aspects of music—how it’s made, how it’s consumed, what sounds people prefer, how it’s performed, and how it’s learned—progress in cycles throughout history from being popular/affordable/accessible to being elite/costly/niche. Put another way, aspects of music that were popular in one generation or century are the same features that are considered elite or rare in the next. As cultural norms, wealth, and social needs shift over time, music changes, too. So, the history of music can be an indicator of other broad trends in history, economics, politics, and social structure.
As you read, think about other history courses you’ve taken that help fill in the gaps in this chronological survey. Think, too, about the ways in which this survey reinforces what you’ve learned in school or from reading (literature and non-fiction!) and movies—every piece of information we add helps flesh out your sense of the world and all it contains.
There’s one constant about how music is learned to keep in mind throughout this historical survey. As long as music has existed—and this is true today, as well—people have learned to make music by listening to music that’s already been made and by trying their hand at making music with each other. The skills, techniques, and details of music are passed down directly from an older group of musicians to a younger group.
Ancient Greece and the Medieval period (ca. 12th century BC to 1300)
For a large portion of European history, the keepers of knowledge were monks and nuns. In between prayers (more on that in Online Discussion #3!) and chores (e.g., cleaning, feeding animals, farming), a common daily task for men in a monastery or women in a nunnery was creating copies of important texts by hand. These texts included religious treatises, scientific texts, Ancient Greek and Roman philosophy, and music.
The history of how music was learned is also the history of how people thought about music. One of the most important takeaways when thinking about music in the Medieval period is knowing just how important music was in the whole spectrum of human knowledge. The way people thought about education was quite different than it is now, and people divided human knowledge into two groups of related subjects, the quadrivium and the trivium:
| Trivium (Literary arts) | Quadrivium (Mathematical disciplines) |
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Together, all seven subjects constituted a liberal arts education, and mastery of the trivium was required before taking on the quadrivium. Notice where music is placed—it’s of equal importance with math and science. Notice, too, that none of the other fine arts appear anywhere in this list of essential subjects.
Organizing and prioritizing human knowledge in this way is an idea that comes from Ancient Greek philosophy:
“Music is a science, certainly, in which exists sure and infallible knowledge.” —Aristides Quintilianus, On Music (ca. 130 AD)
“[T]he cosmos is ordered in accord with harmonia (just as the disciples of Pythagoras assert) and we need the musical theorems for the understanding of the whole universe.. [and] certain types of melos [melody, rhythm, and words sung] form the ethos of the soul.” —Sextus Empiricus, Against the Musicians (2nd century)
“Plato said, not idly, that the soul of the universe is united by musical concord [consonance]… [T]he music of the universe is especially to be studied in the combining of the elements and the variety of the seasons which are observed in the heavens. How indeed could the swift mechanism of the sky move silently in its course? And although the sound does not reach our ears, the extremely rapid motion of such great bodies could not be altogether silent, especially since the courses of the stars are joined together by such mutual adaptation that nothing more equally compacted or united could be imagined. For some orbit higher and others lower, and all revolve by a common impulse, so that an established order of their circuits can be deduced from their various inequalities. For this reason an established order of modulation [i.e., music with a mathematical connotation] cannot be lacking in this celestial revolution.” —Anicius Manlius Severinus Boethius, Fundamentals of Music, Book I (ca. 500), a summary of the works of Nichomachus (60-100) and Ptolemy (100-168)
There are many ways that the works of Greek thinkers like Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy, Epicurus, Euripides, and Socrates continue to shape the world in which we live today—democracy, trial by jury, empirical scientific observations, and public theater all come from Ancient Greece, for example. The very assumption that music is an important thing to study—something that Europeans have believed for thousands of years, long after the quadrivium was abandoned in education, to the point that nearly everyone takes it for granted without knowing where the idea came from—shows how such ideas are tied up in musical behaviors that are passed down over time.
Renaissance, Baroque, and Classical eras (ca. 1300-1800)
Musicians in these periods tended to be born rather than made. That’s not a knock against how hard they worked, just a pithy way of saying that in music, as in most other trades (e.g, blacksmiths, carpenters, farmers), fathers passed their skills directly to their children by teaching them to follow in their footsteps, and most education took place in the home. Most of the “big name” composers we’ll come across in class learned their craft or at least began their studies with their fathers at an early age (around 3 or 4 years old), who were themselves musicians who had learned from their fathers, who had learned from their fathers… Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Ludwig van Beethoven (more on Beethoven in an upcoming online discussion!) all came from families of musicians and began their studies at an early age with their fathers. They heard excellent music making happening right in front of them from their infancy and reinforced what they saw with ongoing lessons in playing (usually keyboard, violin, and singing) and composition.
An important distinction of the post-Medieval era is that knowledge was more widely available beyond the monastery and the nunnery. Major universities were established in the Medieval period that grew in the Renaissance and beyond (Bologna, 1088; Oxford, 1096; Salamanca, 1134; Cambridge, 1209; Padua, 1222; Naples, 1224; Sorbonne, 1150). The invention of a printing press with movable type by Johannes Gutenberg in the mid-15th century facilitated the spread of knowledge, too. Both of these developments help support the general cultural trend towards making education fashionable—because book learning had been so rare previously, it was a mark of refinement, wealth, and quality at this point in time to be well-educated, and people who could afford to do so sought out education and ways to demonstrate their erudition.
On the musical side, there was a flowering of new treatises (rather than just copying ancient ones) written and published about music: its history, music theory, how to make music socially, how to play various instruments, and how to compose. Here’s a small but representative sample, with links to original texts wherever possible:
- Baldassare di Castiglione, Il libro del cortegiano (Book of the Courtesan, 1528)
- Antonfrancesco Doni, Dialogo della musica (Dialogue on music, 1544)
- Pontus de Tyard, Solitaire premier ou prose des Muses & de la fureur poétique (First Solitaire or Prose on the Muses and Poetic Furor, 1552)
- Gioseffo Zarlino, Istitutioni harmoniche (Harmonic Institutions, 1558)
- Henry Peacham, “The Compleat Gentleman” (1622)
- Johann Joseph Fux, Gradus ad parnassum (1725)
- Johann Mattheson, Der vollkommene Capellmeister (The Perfect Music Director, 1739)
- Johann Joachim Quantz, Versuch einer Anweisung die Flöte traversiere zu spielen (Essay on Playing the Flute, 1752)
- Joseph Riepel, “Fundamentals of Musical Composition” (1752)
- Carl Philip Emmanuel Bach, Versuch über die wahre Art, das Clavier zu spielen (Essay on the Proper Manner of Playing A Keyboard Instrument, 1753)
- Leopold Mozart, Versuch einer gründlichen Violinschule (A Treatise on the Fundamental Principles of Violin Playing, 1756)
- Georg Sulzer, Allgemeine Theorie der schönen Künste (General Theory of the Fine Arts, 1771-74)
- Johann Philipp Kirnberger, “The Art of Strict Musical Composition,” (1776)
- Johann Nikolaus Forkel, Allgemeine Geschichte der Musik (A General History of Music, 1788-1801)
- Heinrich Christoph Koch, Versuch einer Anleitung zur Composition (Introductory Essay on Composition, 1782-93)
Music literacy—the ability to read music that is notated on a page—is central to the way classical music is taught from the Baroque era onwards. Musical notation allows musicians to share music with people who aren’t physically in front of them and to learn much more music than a single person can reasonably memorize in one lifetime. Here’s a brief video introduction to music notation that may be of interest to you:
Finally, another important method for learning music emerged in the Baroque era: conservatories. A conservatorio (for boys) or an ospedale (for girls) in Italy was an orphanage.
A conservatory’s main task was to train parent-less children in music. This may seem odd: Why teach an orphan to play violin when they don’t even have a home? But let’s take everything we’ve learned so far about the history of music into account: (1) There’s a long-standing assumption that music is crucial to making a complete human being (from the Ancient Greeks); and (2) People who have musical training are considered cultured and valuable (because it was was rare to have access to it). Given that, it’s pretty clear why people caring for orphans—children who have nothing, no money, no land, no dowry—would give those children some cultural capital in the form of musical training. Even a child with no family has something to offer if they can make music. For boys, that meant the potential to make a living—the fact that they didn’t have a father to teach them was no longer an impediment to success. For girls, this typically meant that they became marriageable—the fact that they could make beautiful music made them more attractive to a potential (rich) husband (more on this idea in Online discussion #6!).
Romantic Era (basically the 19th century)
The goal of most music education in the Renaissance, Baroque, and Classical eras was becoming a competent professional musician: someone whose entire career revolves around music making in many ways (composing, performing, playing multiple instruments, teaching, and writing about music). The most important shift that happens in the Romantic era is an increase in amateur music making: doing it for fun rather than for money.
(Hey, this is one of those cycle things again! Music has always been made for fun, but the people doing that in the Renaissance, Baroque, and Classical eras were members of the nobility and aristocracy. In the 19th century, people who didn’t have titles like “King” or “Duke” are able to make music, too—what had been elite becomes common.)
A common pastime in 19th-century Europe was making music at home—singing songs or playing chamber music with the family to pass the evening, playing for guests to entertain them (and to show off!), and keeping female children busy (we’ll come back to this idea in Online Discussion #7). People would learn to play an instrument and read music by hiring a professional musician to be their private teacher.
University-level music appreciation classes—just like Mu 101!—first appeared in the 19th century in Germany. This tells us some important things about the cultural landscape of the 19th century: (1) People still thought that music was really important (those Greek ideals aren’t going away!), (2) But not everyone felt like they understood music as well as they should (and they wanted to remedy that situation by studying), and (3) Music was becoming more complex, and the kind of music being composed at the time was harder to understand just by hearing it once without some amount of training or background information.
Education of professional musicians was different; it didn’t take place in the home or in a university. People who showed particular musical talent at an early age in the 19th century didn’t study music with their fathers—middle class parents in the Romantic era were more likely to be teachers, government officials, or lawyers than musicians. Instead, they sent their children to the local (or regional) conservatory.
Wait a minute! Weren’t conservatories just orphanages with musical training? Yes, originally (see above), but once people realized how effective musical training could be if you kept kids captive and immersed in music education, they started choosing to have conservatories take their children and train them professionally. The major music conservatories in Europe that are still active today were established in the early 19th century:
- Paris, 1795
- Bologna, 1804
- Milan, 1807
- Florence, 1811
- Prague, 1811
- Warsaw, 1821
- Vienna, 1821
- Royal Academy of Music in London, 1822
- The Hague, 1826
- Liège, 1827
Children would typically enter the conservatory between the ages of 5 and 15 and study music there exclusively—no literature, no math, no science—and intensively for 10-15 years. They’d become proficient in all the skills necessary to make music at the highest level: composition, counterpoint, performance, sight singing, and conducting. Many of the “big name” composers you’ll come across in the 19th and 20th centuries were conservatory-trained: Hector Berlioz, Claude Debussy, Gustav Mahler, Maurice Ravel, Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky.
But what about the US? Even though the United States declared independence from Great Britain in 1776, much of American culture was still tied to or imitated European culture. This included the working assumption that having musical knowledge was crucial for a person to be fully educated and worldly. The US didn’t have the same long-standing music education tradition that Europe did, and the major US conservatories and music schools were established quite a bit later than their European counterparts:
- The Peabody Institute at Johns Hopkins University, 1857
- Oberlin Conservatory of Music, 1865
- New England Conservatory, 1867
- Boston Conservatory, 1867
- Yale School of Music, 1894
- The Juilliard School, 1905
- San Francisco Conservatory of Music, 1917
- Manhattan School of Music, 1917
- Cleveland Institute of Music, 1920
- Eastman School of Music, 1921
- The Curtis Institute of Music, 1924
- The Colburn School, 1950
Without the same quality of musical training available, American orchestras and opera companies weren’t as proficient as their European counterparts, and audiences weren’t as culturally savvy. Some American musicians experienced a fair amount of culture-envy or cultural inadequacy when they compared music making in America to the institutions of Europe. For example, one such musician, William Henry Fry (1813-64), staged a series of lengthy, dense public lectures in New York City in 1853 in a feverish attempt to bring the uncultured (or so he thought) American public up to speed with the European standard-makers. Notice that his lectures precede the establishment of any conservatories in the US—other people clearly felt the same pressure and put their efforts into institutional education.
The 20th century
The 19th-century trend of home music making (by amateurs for fun) was widespread—to the point that most middle-class families had a piano in their living room and at least one family member could play it reasonably well—until the Great Depression (1929-39). In the 20th century we again run up against another one of those social cycles: classical music making had become so common, and seemed so associated with “old people” (like parents and grandparents), that it stopped being fashionable. What was fashionable was popular music—jazz, rock, disco, hip-hop, or pop, depending on the decade in question.
On top of that, the classical music made by those conservatory-trained professional musicians (who immersed themselves in all the techniques, skills, and history of music from an early age) was generally becoming even less accessible to the average listener. As an example of music from a conservatory-trained musician that is difficult for many new listeners, here’s Pierre Boulez’s Structures I (1952) and II (1962):
All of this means that the way music is learned in the 20th century is a more extreme version of trends that had already taken root in previous eras: (1) Professional classical musicians were trained intensively, often from an early age, in a style of music that was becoming less and less popular; (2) People who could afford it studied music privately in their homes (because they were continuing that Ancient Greek assumption that there’s value in music study!); (3) Hands-on music making generally became less and less prevalent (consider that even garage bands, with self-taught teenagers playing guitars, drums, and bass, are significantly less popular now than they were 20 years ago—just a single generation); and (4) The majority of the public only listened to music rather than playing it themselves, and increasingly they only listened to music that was recorded rather than played live. An oversimplified—and contentious!—description of the way music is learned today would suggest that there is a class of people who are trained to do the music making for everyone else.
There are exceptions to all historical trends, so here I’d like to provide one from the 20th century. The poster below hung in the New York City dance studio of choreographer Merce Cunningham in the 1960s consisting of rules for teachers and students, compiled by educator Sister Corita Kent in 1967-68 and partly inspired by composer John Cage. These rules (although the word “rules” here is used ironically, since the ideas they contain are so broad as to defy the formula of typical rules that must be followed) are an effort in one corner of the art world to buck against the rigidity of the conservatory tradition and the notion of top-down learning (i.e., from professional veterans to their disciples). Cage and his partner Cunningham used these rules as a way to create a learning environment in which they and their students were encouraged to grow, explore and create freely:
Final thoughts
The question of “How is music learned?” is simplistic but not simple—the answer depends on when in history we’re talking about and who we’re talking about. The common thread in all of the methods people have developed to teach music is that effective learning involves meaningful and constant exposure to people who already make music at a high level, accompanied by rigorous, systematic training in many aspects of music making (e.g., multiple instruments, composition, performance). This should remind you of Online Discussion #1—even though historical music professionals didn’t know the neuroscience of training one’s brain, through thousands of years of passing music down people developed methods that reinforce neural pathways!
-Dr. J.
Some questions to get the conversation going
It’s most effective in an online forum like this to pick one question at a time to respond to in a single comment, rather than combining several different ideas into one comment.
- What would be your preferred way to study music of all the methods described?
- What would happen if you adopted the Kent/Cage/Cunningham rules in your own life?
- What kinds of music making/learning does this survey omit or leave out? Why do you think they’re not included here?
- Why might knowing the history of how a subject has been taught be helpful?
Dr. Jones' Music Classes 
i saw that people learnt music from their parents, some at schools and some played it for fun at home.
i will learn music, then play it.My cousin is in Belgium he studied music and now he is a rapper. H e is going in many countries to perform. i saw many peolple in my family they learnt music from their friends and neighbours my uncle was a very good flutist .But i believe if he worked a little bit harder he could do better he was in Belgium he could go in any institution but he didnt.
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After reading this article i thought it was considerate of people to create conservortories for the homeless children. They started something major by trying to add something to helpless kids lives. i thought it was amazing that the conservortories turned into elite schools for studying music when before it was just for the less fortunate.
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wow yes! I found this so intriguing. The thought of how conservatories main task was to train homeless children in music and now its a place for everyone in our day in era to learn and play music.
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@ashleybrown I found this interesting as well, to me this type of system should be implemented into our shelters, orphanages and possibly prison systems. And it doesn’t necessarily have to to be music, just to care and teach our own people a craft, sport or art can benefit us as well. People who find themselves in these types of places often feel like outcasts and unimportant, and this is a good way to let them know that they are.
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I read this article and it was very informative and thorough, the part that caught my attention the most is how important it is to learn the history of the music you are being taught. In addition I have read an article online that states that learning about musical history make us appreciate it much more also it shows how the music has changed over time. This statement applies so much to my Life because I believe me taking this course and learning the different genres and music history will help me appreciate music more because Music History is very special it has a value.
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I found it interesting how Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Ludwig Van Beethoven all came from families of musicians and studied young with their fathers. They basically built on top of all the musical knowledge their fathers had learned and perfected to create something even greater leaving behind music that will taught or played for a lifetime. Imagine if that was still practiced in today’s musical world, I feel back in the classical era parents who were great at music wanted their kids to be great also since it meant they were cultured and educated but now in our era i feel parents don’t want there kids to feel forced to pick up music like they did they want them more so to have the passion rather than feel obligated.
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Yes good point but a lot of them were forced against their own will and got beat when they made mistakes Beethoven even ended up deaf because his dad used to hit him so much
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what fascinated me the most about reading these passages were about the conservatories. even though they were mainly used for orphaned kids who. even though they were poor they felt that with music art least the boys can make that their living and girls would be looked at as impressive and get married.at least that was the idea for why they had this.what was very interesting about this was it started being used for kids with parents because these parents realized how effective musical training could be so they wanted conservatories take there kids as well so their kids can have a music education as well. and so they will be perficent in all aspects of music.
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I also that found fascinating because it gave the opportunity to so many kids to learn music otherwise they would have never been exposed to. Music also gives discipline so I could see why they would want kids to learn music at orphanages keeping them occupied
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Great point !! Music does give discipline so teaching it to kids would eventually help the elders and help the kids mature too.
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I think of all the methods discussed I would want to learn music the way it said in the above passage how people would get private lessons of learning to play music in their home because I think I would have the best level of concentration and a sense of enjoyment from the comfort of my home learning to play on my own pace and my time as apposed to in a school were it was discussed in the passages because it would be to intense you would have to keep up with the pace and music is an art and an enjoyable thing not something thats would be an intensive matter were you make it your life and soley your education your turning in to a need instead instead of something you love and want.
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i definitely agree with this, i feel that trying to learning music one on one is way better than being in a group you can focus more and grasp a better understanding and in a sense maybe this can make a better musician since the instructor helping u privately. Sometimes people see others doing better than them in something and often get discouraged and start to think they can’t be as great but like you said when u have those private at home lessons you will have all the confidence in the world
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my question about when reading this was even though they explained the benefits of orphan kids having the skill of music it just doesn’t seem to fit with me because why is music the answer it didn’t seem that they were teaching them music out of pity because they felt bad they were orphans so music will make them happy it seemed like they felt this would be a good skill but why did they choose this to teach and not focus on a skill and techniques on how to be a farmer or a blacksmith like a lot of people back then were they could have trained the orphan kids to be skilled in anything why zone in to this specific skill.
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To answer your question @chava19 maybe they were just passionate about learning the skill of music, In addition playing and learning music maybe were there safe-haven at the time while being in a orphan home. Or the people in the homes maybe wanted this skill to be instill in them and maybe more helpful in the longer run.
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In my opinion, sometimes music is the only thing that can make someone happy and make them define who they really are.
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I have to agree with both rwhite22 and serena14355 when it comes to being passionate about music. Orphans needed to learn something besides blacksmith and farming, the purpose of music is to make us feel better about ourselves and relating music to the real world. Orphans learning music is a good thing because they would have the skill and knowledge to teach others.
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To answer your question because music was as important as other subjects thats why they taught them and maybe they could earn better with these skills other it was a symbol of civilization so i dont thing it was a bad idea at least they were thinking about orphan kids.
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My question is what era of music do you guys think holds more value in today’s education system music from the 19th century or music from the 20th century?
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Hi , so in my opinion what I think holds more value and what people enjoy listening to these days are different I think that the music from the 19th century no matter how ancient it seems to us we will always know about it learn about it and will be spoked about wether its something you would voluntarily listen or not there is history to be learnt about the music times from 100s of years ago still now it build the path to our generations music. I don’t feel that our music is something that would be spoken about or taught like the great singers and composers we learn about. we have history class dedicated to the beginning of all music you can’t be educated with the music we have now if you don’t know the root of where it all began. this is just my opinion 🙂
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I don’t know if you’ll know that my answer is for you so just in case rwhite22
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I feel as if both centuries’ music are equally important. There shouldn’t be a sole focus on one because it is important to be well-rounded and know the entire history if you plan to pursue a career in music.
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It should also be important to understand how music has impacted us over the year and when pursuing a musical career, we should want to know how we are going to make the impact in the ways our ancestors have.
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I think the 20th century holds more value in todays era because one, 20th C. was into “popular music” and nobody was around from the 19th C. to teach or influence to new artists of today.
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In the passage they mentioned that in the 20th century classical music was not fashionable anymore because it was too common and people related it to “old people.” Which is crazy to think because today no matter what age we are, we still listen to “old songs” even though they aren’t on the trend anymore. In my opinion I feel like old songs are the best. When they mentioned that the musicians followed their fathers footsteps, I still feel like that hasn’t changed. Not necessarily for them to follow their fathers steps only but the mothers as well. I still do believe many of the singers, or musicians we have today do still come from a family who is in the music industry.
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I agree, but also disagree with your statement. The article mentioned, “What was fashionable was popular music—jazz, rock, disco, hip-hop, or pop, depending on the decade in question.” Music has evolved over the course of time, but I feel (in my opinion), it has just been evolving at a faster pace. It’s what’s new, trendy, and part of our culture during that particular decade. I love “old school songs” and the amazing artists that produce them, but I feel it wouldn’t really catch my interest as much as a modern day song would. Another example would be that I really enjoy the song, “West End Blues” by Louis Armstrong, but I feel it does not “fit” in our decade.
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“Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”― Edmund Burke “A quote by Edmund Burke.” Quote by Edmund Burke: “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repe…”, http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/111024-those-who-don-t-know-history-are-doomed-to-repeat-it.
It is important for us to know the history of how a subject is taught so we can learn from the mistakes that have been made in the past and try to avoid them. We can learn from our past mistakes and make improvements.
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While reading this article, I think it was pretty cool that they did something to kids that doesn’t have anyone. They introduced music to them and people who have musical training are considered cultured and valuable and it is clear why they care for orphanage who doesn’t have money, or land, or no one. Another thing that was interesting was the fact that Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Ludwig Van Beethoven came from families of musicians and studied at a young age with their fathers.
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I agree with your comment because you’d think they’d neglect children who are homeless or have no-one to take care of them. Allowing these children to learn music may have helped them just because even though they had no one by their side, family wise, they were still able to be knowledgeable and be considered valuable.
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I agree with you too in how cool it was that kids who didn’t have a family still had an opportunity to lean and or make money.
I also think its suits the time period for people to think that those who were musically inclined were valued and considered cultured.
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I’ve learned a lot from this article. There’s a lot of things about music that I don’t know about. According to the article, it says that music is placed with math and science which is true because you have to know the number of the bar line and how many beats are in each bar and the bottom number tells us how many notes are in each bar. However, in my opinion music can pretty cool and yet confusing how to read it and to remember all the notes.
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@serena143355 I agree, it is very amusing to see how music and subjects like math and science can actually coincide with each other. Also, learning and remembering notes can seem very intimidating at first, i went through the exact same thing when i learned how to play the trumpet. However if you give it a shot, everything seems much more simple than at first glance 🙂
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while reading this, my question is do you think music from the 19th century is better than today’s music?
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@serena14355 Personally, I wouldn’t say it is better or worse. We have to understand those are different times, different trends ,different influences, different interests, different sounds, but I would say I have some appreciation for it because the music that we hear today has evolved from the 19th century and even from times before that . Actually, What I’ve been observing lately is that we have some old school authentic fashion trends coming back like Fila and Champion, track suits, etc. and if you hear a few of the recent songs being released ,some of them are starting to incorporate old school instrumentals. Old is becoming the New New.
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Personally, I think is better today. Not only because technology, but also because the new sounds we have and use now a says .
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Personally, I think is better today. Not only because technology, but also because the new sounds we have and use now a says .
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I think it depends what are you listening sometimes maybe old music can fascinate you but for me new songs inspire me more then the old songs but not all new songs are praiseable i even cannot hear all the newones .
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I don’t think you can’t really compare the two. I think both periods of time have created really good music! I’m more accustomed to music from this period so I am a bit biased
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I found both videos to be really fascinating and clear to the point. Music notes are very important to turn music into a work of art. Beethoven and Justin Bieber both make their music great through the use of musical notes. As for the second video, the rhythm of the song kept shifting from high to low and from slow to fast. I think it could be polyphonic or homophonic.
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Do you guys think that trivium and quadrivium relates to us exploring the world of music because music has been an ancient part of history and how do we know that we have full reach the trivium of music.
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“Music is a science, certainly, in which exists sure and infallible knowledge.” —Aristides Quintilianus, On Music (ca. 130 AD). Personally, I had never considered or seen music as a science. I did know that the ones who want to be artists would have to study music, but today I had come to the knowledge of their begins as a science. Something that called my attention was to know how important music was considered on the 12th century BC to 1300 to the point where was part of Quadrivium at the same level of mathematical disciplines – maybe that’s why was considered as a science,
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Question: do you think that music as an important and as a required course as it was on the 12 centuries should still be?
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Since music has evolved, has reading music notes or the way music has been written changed compared to how it use to be read or written? Or has it stayed similar to how it was before?
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@kcatagua19
Music notes were originally created and hand written for church choirs and represented by neumes. As technology progressed, such as the invention of printing press, more people were able to create a common notation. The staff, clefs and ledger lines eventually became more common and evolved further such as the grand staff. Even today people keep trying to evolve the way music is written such as this ted talk which shows a man named Jeff Hao who patented a new way to write music which he calls the Hao Staff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REBAIF327b4
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Music has evolved throughout the years,It has become something more than a subject to be learned or an art passed down through the generations. Math and science two subjects filled with many subdivisions. They are the foundation that everything is built on ,and music is just as important. Music stood side by side with subjects like Math ,and Science it was seen as an essential part of life. This shows how important music is, because “Without music, life would be a mistake”-Friedrich Nietzsche. Music was a skill that was passed on from parent to child, but that is no longer the case. Music has changed, it is no longer something forced upon you,and people are learning music because they are passionate about it.Music has changed. And will keep changing.
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How you think the quality of music today holds up when compared to the music of the past ?
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I think the music for the past might not as equal in the best sound with todays music, since now we have technology to make this, but certainly, I could say that music from the past besides their beautiful sound was natural in inspiration, and melody.
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I think you have to factor in the political and socioeconomic conditions surrounding the music to be able to make a judgement. Music of different time periods was made for varying reasons, so it would be hard to make that choice.
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Question: In today’s society we generally view music and art in the same category but in the past it was coupled together with subjects like science and math. How did this shift occur and which category do you think it belongs?
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When it comes to learning how to read music or picking up an instrument for the first time , although the methods from back then are still used ,there are alternatives. These days technology has made it so that you can learn to play instruments yourself . You can do this through video tutorials on YouTube or even applications such as youscician or Uberchord etc. Obviously back then it was more raw there was a lot more to it ,a lot more effort was required , I would say. Which brings me to my question. Which method do guys think is more productive and efficient ? The disciplined class room type setting with actual face to face lessons from professionals or learning yourself through applications or videos?
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I think the tutor method is the most efficient. Speaking from my experience from using YouTube and Apps, it doesn’t give you the best experience of learning a new skill. For instance, if you make a mistake there isn’t anyone there to show you the correct method or technique. Actual face to face methods gives you the discipline to continue and really learn compared to doing it just on your own. I will say, the amazement of technology gives us a great way to practice and learn on your own but you would need the will to really learn from them.
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@mwaters23 I believe that both methods can be productive, especially if you combine them. Personally I do a lot of research online to learn about something or learn how to do something, but it would also help me if I had some help from an expert. For example I do a lot of work on my car and most of it I have learned off of DIY videos on youtube, but if I had someone to help me it would make the process easier and less time consuming.
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Early in the article it is said that, “people have learned to make music by listening to music that’s already been made and by trying their hand at making music with each other.” I definitely agree with this but nowadays we live in a copyrighted society where our originality may be penalized by having similarities to past music. Popular songs such as “Photograph” by Ed Sheeran and “Blurred lines” by Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams have been accused of infringement and millions of dollars have been paid due to this. As music education evolved with the times, we should also be wary with our knowledge and ability to use the past in current and future music.
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The learning of music has evolved through the ages. With it, there has been different genres of music created through the generations. If there’s a method that we can use for music class, I think that we should teach and focus on one genre of music once a week. One week, we can learn about rock. The next week, a lesson on Hip Hop. The week after that, classical jazz, and so on. Here in college, we use music as a method to learn from the past to the present. We learn about how it works and how it changed from one decade to the next.
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After reading this article I found myself being more educated. This article was very thorough and informative. To be completely honest, I never thought of where music first originated and how it came to be. After today that opened a whole new world for me. I thought that it was awesome that back then people made conservatories for the homeless. To now think it’s how and where people go to learn and play music.
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I agree and had the same experience learning all these different levels and ways of generations of people that learned music and how it completely evolved over time, especially the way it’s learned, made and listened to. I found myself really interested in this kind of history. I found many points in the article that say that music is listened to and learned by listening to music that exists already and I agree with this point because it had been this way for generations despite the fact that this process consistently changes many times over the years. This article was very informative.
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My question would be why the shift in how we learn and play music? The article mentioned that people played music in garages and in familiar settings and in places like a conservatory. Is there a study on that conservatory’s are better to learn and play music? or is it just a preference?
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This article is very interesting to me because the way music was learned in the 20th century is really different from today in a lot of ways.Also that children would study music intensively without a math or english class. That is very different and something that I have not known.
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why teach an orphan how to play viloin if they dont have a home? I guess they were actually really helping them be valuable because music was such a great thing to be good at.
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i think even today music can bring the family together . playing piano or listening music bring hapiness when someone learned music he,she can be polished. so in my opinion atleast for the begining of school years it should be compulsory to learn how to play an instrument . Today in the world of tension we need to relax ourselves and music can help us.
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That is so true, this was a great point you brought up I agree 100 %
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What really made me interested about this article was that people are born to play a certain type of music; not learn it. That spoke volumes to me because it goes to show you that people who produce music musical mind’s can be affected by other things such as their culture, the way they were brought up, and where they live. All those things play affect on a person’s musical mind.
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One question I have is are any musical composers today were brought up as orphans?
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What was most interesting to me is how music has evolved over the years to be what it is now
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One question I have and is rather hypothetical why is it that the greatest composers have such tragic life rather sad full of misery
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To answer your question i believe if composers didn’t have a tragic life their music wouldn’t be as memorable or famous as they are today, their tragic life is the key to what their music means and how they express themselves.
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I was very intrigued by Beethoven’s life so I took the liberty to watch a movie based on his life here is a dramatic scene if anyone is interested in watching its called ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=524VlYD0PVw&feature=share
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What fascinated me the most was the way learning music has evolved from musicians learning from their parents, to the era of conservatories and music schools. It seems to me as if musicians of the classical era were so literate in music they spoke the language of music. I am sure it is still like that today for working professionals but not to the extremes of the classical era. Looking back at the article it is also incredible how some of the greatest composers grew up listening to master pieces being made from scratch since birth. In addition I found very interesting the concept that knowing how to play music gave people a higher value. It helped women find often rich husbands and gave orphan children a chance to do something and make living out of it.
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here is an article about composers and their fathers i found interesting http://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/occasions/composers-fathers/mozarts-father/
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I love how in the Medieval period, Europeans believed music was an important thing to study that they incorporated into the trivium ( a liberal arts education) alongside 7 other subjects like grammar and geometry, adopting the teachings of Greek philosophers like Plato and Aristotle about their stand about music being essential to the human mind.
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I think my preferred way of learning to study music would be by a private tutor because I like to be in the comfort of my home to study something at the pace I feel I would be good at.
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I feel the same. I think that in order to learn something and master it, you have to do it at your own pace & however makes you feel comfortable.
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I think of all the methods of studying music that was described, the most interesting to me would be the method used in the 19th century. It’s pretty fascinating that they found music so important over other subjects such as history and math to just study music in the conservatories. It really showed how strong the value of music was at that time. It’s somewhat similar to how people would go to nunneries and practice their faith but that was their passion and what they decided to do with their life. I think it also reminds me of how it somewhat is now where some people just go to school to study music for their professional schools and don’t focus on other subjects like we do like general education and how it’s a requirement.
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I agree with the somewhat because you are right there’s schools just for a certain subject or focus and then there’s school like QCC who make you take general requirements.
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The topics that this article addressed were quite interesting. I believe that it is very important to know the history, not only behind music, but behind everything that is involved in making music. From composers to instruments, the more knowledgeable you are about something, the easier it is to become passionate about it and learn it. With that being said, I find myself questioning the earliest dates that this article addresses in regards to music. I stumbled across an article about prehistoric music in my search about the history of music… “http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20140907-does-music-pre-date-modern-man” This article makes me wonder how humans took something so primal and simplistic as a bunch of sounds emanating from our bodies & evolved and transformed it in the music we have today. It’s absolutely amazing when you think about – the training of our voices, the creation of instruments, etc., which all comes back to understanding the history of music over the ages.
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One question I’d like to ask is – Is composing music still as genuine today as it was in the earlier eras described in this article? Adding to this question, do composers today make music to reflect their thoughts, feelings and emotions? Or do they just make music to keep up with the trend, please the general population and profit? We hear of so many great composers from the past whose music remains timeless, however, how many from our generation will we have 20-30 years from now?
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My preferred way to study music would be the method of hiring a professional musician to come to the house and teach me as they did in the Romantic Era. Finding another outlet to let time past by in that era is too relatable to present past time.
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I found it very intriguing that famous composers such as Mozart and Beethoven were passed down their musical genius from their fathers. It makes me think how we as a society, how many centuries later, didn’t even think about where their greatness came from. Turns out there were generations of musical composers that possibly may have been even greater than Mozart and Beethoven themselves.
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If I adopted John Cage’s rules to my own life, I’d probably have a much more positive outlook on playing an instrument and allowing someone teach me. Reading the “10 Rules For Student and Teachers” and understanding his approach was an enlightening feeling for me. If I had continued to play music in my twenties, and knowing those rules in the back of my mind; that would have helped me to continue and excel.
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I feel that the fact that children were forced to learn music is what made them better before. Like look at college itself what if all you want to do is learn and learn how to play it. The college you go to will force you to take “required classes” before you can fully go into what you want to learn. Where here in the article a child could go fully to a music school from the ages 5-15.
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A question I have is, did it matter if a child was a boy or girl? Because I feel there was way more men mentioned than females and in the beginning it mentioned fathers thought their kids.
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Back then, men were seen as the dominant and smarter sex, so even though both men and women were taught music, men had more publicity for playing it. People also thought that women shouldn’t have time to play music since they need to take care of the house-chores and kids.
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I think if I had to live by the cunningham rules in my own life i would probably be working more harder towards my goals and that whatever i make is something it isn’t nothing because according to the rules “there is no win or fail there is only make”. Another thing is to be happy because it is something that you should always be no matter what. It says to also be self disciplined which is very important to always be respectful of one another and be able to control my emotions. Another thing which i found funny were the helpful hints for example it says to attend all classes which in QCC its mandatory but at UB it wasn’t which the funny part is i did way better when i attended my classes here at QCC than when i didn’t at UB. My preferred way of studying music is to be taught by a teacher just how university classes become prominent in coming to teach people how to play music, i cannnot learn by having a private tutor because a tutor in my opinion is more interested in the money rather than he/she being interested in me knowing that i can learn playing an instrument. I rather be sent to a conservatory than to have a private tutor.
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How did you guys feel about listening to the song “Structures I” (1952) by Pierre Boulez? It was confusing to listen to in my opinion, sounded like a cat walking on a piano lol. It may sound confusing to me but beautiful to someone else listening, im interested to know if anyone felt the same way
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This weeks article was interesting and informative. It was a good refresher watching the first video on “How to Read Music”. Learning about how people learned music from the beginning was interesting. Learning that famous composers and children of that time, learned from the men in their family caught my attention. Also, learning that back in the Classical Era, there were still opportunities present for children with no families. Boys, had the option of being able to make a living through music and girls who learned how to play could/would make them marriage material and attract rich men.
Furthermore, I enjoyed learning that the Romantic Era caused a change for musicians. They enjoyed making music more than making money. Musicians became more competent and members of society could make music too even if “duke” or “king” wasn’t attached to their names. Overall, music education changed when the 20th century arrived but I believe without the past, musicians of the 20th wouldn’t have its diverse music taste and rebellious attitude.
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One question that i have is if we live our lives by the Cunnigham rules will our lives change for the better meaning will we do better in school, in our studies, have a better life or will it change for the worst?
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It’s also amazing how much of a quiet impact music has had from century to century since the Ancient Greek civilizations. In my personal experience of all my history courses, music is barley touched on unless it’s the Roaring Twenties/The Harlem Renaissance.
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Knowing the subtle impacts music has had such as brain development, a crucial factor in a “a complete human”, or even cultural value, makes me wonder how many more instances there are where music music has had on historical events.
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I thought of the same thing when i was reading. I feel like there is a lot out there we just dont know maybe even lost music that could have changed or shaped the world slightly different.
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It is very helpful to learn how to play a note in several ways in order to get it down-packed. From experience, I have learned many techniques and lessons to play a piece of music and found one that works best for me. Therefore, learning the history of how music was taught, can help us learn new and different techniques on how to play certain pieces, instruments, read music, and so on.
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The question that I pose is, why was gender such an obstacle for those children learning music? I feel like in those orphanages, or conservatories, all children had the same means of learning of music considering they all were in the same position as orphans. So what made a boy more successful than a girl? Or even vise-versa!
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A lot of different society roles and norms throughout history were gendered. I can assume that music was probably more encouraged for boys to learn than girls.
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Really, that is my first time to know how stave work for music. Before I just know how it looks like and what is it do.
The history about education of music also interesting for me.
Talking about education of music, it reminds me a lot for China, one of the point that is the family background for the students.
Before, most students have education at art major (like painting, singing) are come from poor family. They want to find a way to make money or for work (some plays music for the rich people).
But lets take a look at the last few years, more art major show up for pubic eyes become more and more popular. The students of art major are changed. Last week I talk with some of my friends with music, one of them even said “art is not a major for poor child”, or somethings like that.
I try to thought out about why it is a very big different, and how art changed in people’s mind.
I think “The diversity of music should be keep ”
music is from life, and it not depends on the learner are rich or poor. Anyway, looking back to music, also we have a lot good musicians came from a not very good home environment.
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Reading these articles reminded me of my music history college-now class back in high school. An interesting fact about the guitar: the guitar was seen as an instrument played by bums and uncultured people on the streets. Many people looked down on the guitar, which is why people often only played the violin, piano, and sang back then; many other instruments were seen as only noise makers and not music creators. This is because people were a lot more religious driven before. In fact, people use to only rely on their voices to create what’s called “time-less music”. In order to give the feel of heaven, which is a time-less place, the music they sang had absolutely no rhythm, making it impossible to even tap your foot to the music. This music is called “Gregorian Chant”.
Just a little fact for everyone. Give Gregorian Chant a listen; it’s very beautiful and mesmerizing!
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A question I’d like to pose for everyone is what you’d think would happen to the world we lived in if music didn’t exist. Music has been used in order to teach people new languages, help them relax and forget about the world, and teach others to help them strengthen their skills. Obviously the world would be very different without music, but what would be different?
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Taking some time to think about this question, really puts some interesting thoughts into my head. I’ve seen some videos and articles where music can be used as a type of relief therapy for patients suffering from insomnia as well as the elderly who feel depressed and lonely. Losing music would greatly hinder the mood of the masses. Take a more relatable example, imagine not having music in the car or bus while you travel. I believe that this would put many of us into a terrible mood. This video is an interesting watch as it it shows how music that is familiar to an individual can change their perception and even improve mood.
Elderly man reacts to music from his era: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUnUPraRik4
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I learned a lot reading this article. I always knew that music was always around in our history but to see how music has evolved throughout the years is incurable.To answer your question Carissa I believe the difference if we did not have music would be the cultures. What i mean by this is that every culture has a different way of expressing themselves through music. From Asians to Mexicans and all the races in between, these different cultures come with a different types of vibes. inspiring the music we have today, I am also a strong believer that music does bring people together and without music i feel as an human race we would be distant from other cultures. When a huge musician goes on a world tour he representing wherever he came from and showing other cultures what artistic inspiration he/she has.
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Of course in the last 20 years, music consumption has changed in addition to how people have studied music as well, change is something that’s inevitable to occur especially with modern generations having access to resources such as the internet. I’ve also come to understand that although things have changed for sure it’s not without being rooted in 19th-century values and how they’re pioneering the popularity in amateur recreational music as well as Cunningham’s studio rules as well because to an extent it’s true how everything is like an experiment and that it contribute’s to our life experiences. Although certain aspects such as musicians being birthed instead of made over-time aren’t something common in modern households as much anymore, the internet may also be one of those reasons because now the musicians to be looks to websites and services such as youtube as they take a d.i.y. approach as well as to make music we wouldn’t need a full setup we can look to create our own compositions in things such as Digital Audio Workstations like ProTools, Logic, and Abelton. Although things have changed maybe this isn’t a bad thing and it should be looked at as an experience that can be pulled because overall this change can introduce new genres and new ways to consume music.
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What stood out to me reading these articles is the idea of music that is changing and evolving. One part of the article mentions that during the Great Depression, it would be common for at least one member of the household to be familiar with playing the piano. These people who knew how to play the piano would continue to do so into their later life and thus create the illusion that piano and classical instruments be associated with the elderly. It created to stigma that classical music isn’t “hip” or modern compared to the likes of Hip Hop or Pop music. What interests me isn’t the classical music itself, but the reason why it remained attached to the older generation. The article states that the techniques used in playing the piano were old-fashioned and traditional, thus making it something a newer generation of listeners have much difficulty listening to. This makes me question if this classical type of music had adopted a more modern and “hip” style, would it lessen the connection that it has that associates it with the elderly?
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the learning and evolution of music has come a long way. the way music is learned seems very complex, but in reality it is very simplistic way. Seeing how music have existed through out history and the impacts it has made is very interesting. Every single not signals the player on what to play, and what key to stay on and whether to go higher and lower. Music also made various employment opportunities back in the day. Learning music could be used to make a living, and girls who had music talents were seen as more attractive. that is what i learned from this passage, and it open my eyes to a wide range of knowledge i never knew i had about music.
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Through this article, we can see the revolution of concepts of music. At the early centuries from 1300-1800, people used to educated children about music in home, conservatory only for orphans; from 19th century, people send their children to conservatory for their professional education experience. So we can see that people’s concepts about music became more and more systematic and official during that time. Therefore, music became not only play wonderful sounds with instruments but also a literature science.
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I found a lot of things intriguing about music culture and history and etc… Even though there was a lot of information here i realized that one can prepare there whole lives around music and not leave an impact like some greats have done. Beethoven for example wrote and opera at the age of 6. How can one be on such a different spectrum of music and have an immense gift. I’m sure there are many others but I’m poorly informed on the matter. I think we should all be blessed to have ears to listen to music but understand that some people are just better inclined to possibly succeed and achieve greatness. Just something that came to my mind.
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My preferred method of studying music would be attending a conservatory. I believe that in music and in life you get out whatever you put in, and if all your time is dedicated to that one thing, you are more likely to be successful at it. I experienced this first hand while attending a summer baseball camp. For a whole month, all my time was dedicated to becoming a better player and practicing harder, and it improved my game a lot. A conservatory serves almost the same purpose so I can imagine for the extended period of time I would be studying there, I would become great.
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1) My preferred way of learning/study would be the the way the Ancient Greeks studied. The value of learning music was placed in the same section as with Science and Mathematics, but to learn music first you must master Trivium- Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric. I feel that by mastering those skills you would have very little trouble with Quadrivium- Arithmetic, Geometric, Astronomy, Music. You’d follow the work easily and understand the math. And with with music you’d understand possibly the context of it all, the feeling, the emotional part. And plus the Greeks knew what they were doing.
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I agree that learning Trivium(Grammar,Logic, and Rhetoric) first and then moving on to Quadrivium( Arithmetic,Geometry,Astronomy, and Music) is an effective way to approach learning. Do you feel that the educators of today should follow this model?
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@acalmdiscusser
I agree that learning Trivium(Grammar,Logic, and Rhetoric) first and then moving on to Quadrivium( Arithmetic,Geometry,Astronomy, and Music) is an effective way to approach learning. Do you feel that the educators of today should follow this model?
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It seems that the educators of the medieval period were on to something. They saw the connection of music and the sciences. There is now research that is showing a direct correlation between music and science. Here is some research from the National Science Foundation: https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/science_nation/musiccreativity.jsp.
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2) If I were to add the Kent/Cage/Cunningham rules in my life from the get go, I’d probably be saved from the trouble learning most of it from past experiences, probably most of my literature work would have some shades of my artistic side maybe some hidden sparkle would show and ultimately reveal itself in time but who knows all the what ifs? Life is an experiment in which by the end of it all your peers would know if were a success or a failure and the best you could probably wish for is that learn, had the most fun at it, and did possibly the best job you could ever do. Their rules would have saved me a ton of trouble.
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4) The learning of the history by the past could help further understand how the mind works and could be the best possible way to understand music. Take for example regular history, The League Nations was not as authoritative as the UN is today and that is because the world learned from the mistakes that the League Of Nations did. The understanding of how art and music was learned could help us understand our past but evolve ourselves artistically and as human beings.
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Attending a conservatory would be my preferred way to study music. I think the most effective way to to learn something is through specialization. I also believe that it is best to model yourself after professionals in any field.
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The article made me wonder, why did educators abandon the system of dividing subjects into the two groups of trivium and quadrivium?
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I would prefer to study music the same way that the ancient Greeks did. In a way, I view music as something big and universal, especially when the philosophers have put music under the same category as science and math. Pythagoras thought of music as something very mathematical and consistent. It is also where music was first really studied and the early rules of music are still applied.
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Why are there less and less people learning to play instruments?
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I think adopting the Kent/Cage/Cunningham rules would help me to establish efficient study habits.
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The article does not focus on singing. It seems that the article is focused on music that is made using instruments.
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I wish that I had a copy of the Kent/Cage/Cunningham rules when i started college.
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In my response to the article, one way I would prefer to study all the music methods described, would really be to understand and study the time frame and historical events that took place during that time the music piece came out. Also, really understanding the composer or artist.
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It would be interesting to adopt the set of rules Kent/Cage/Cunningham enforced in my own life. I feel as it definitely would be for the better, as it does make u grow, in both maturity and an articulate way. These set of rules really push you to do better for, not only yourself, but for the other people around you.
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I found this article as an interesting article. It opened my knwolege and understanding of the hustory behind music. It seem as though in the early generation took music very serious to the extent where a child would be forced to learn music. It also seem people had a strong love for music because many of them enjoy making music than making money. What also caught my attention was the role of the conservatories. The service they provided for homeless kids. Although the children were poor learning music art can help the boys to make a living and the girls to look impressive and with the potential to get married.
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As a musician I would pick the 19th and 20th century because in the 19th century it was more of a focus if you was good at it. The 20th century is what ushered in new genres and sounds as well. So it’s the best of both world. Also as a musician in a church, i play by ear, so as a young child i would be by the musician, the choirs and instruments and I learned a lot. So when i finally picked the drum sticks up it came natural.
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I feel as if this survey is excluding the ability to create house music, or Electronic Dance Music (EDM). It is not so much taken as a complete exclusion of a song, but as a topic, that we haven’t covered yet. But definitely learning the origins of building a melody, and relating brilliant songs from Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven to what we see today in our generation, will definitely aid in ones future of music making.
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I agree with @ musk101 that attending a conservatory would be a very good place to learn how to not only study music but to learn about music and get yourself captivated in it and really learn the most you can and maximize your learning and experience through trained professionals
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What does anyone else think of producing house music?
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Is their one preferred or best way of learning music, or are all ways of learning just dependent on whos trying to learn? and also does learning music benefit someones everyday life?
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