Class discussion #1

54 thoughts on “Class discussion #1”

1. I find it really fascinating harmony can keep a piece of music significantly organized, even when voices or instruments are played at once. I learned a canon is where two or more instruments or voices are being played or sung starting at different times. I also learned fugue begins like a canon but develops into its own form. You think this can get very unorganized, but with harmony, it brings everything together, nicely, organized, and smooth to the ears (34:20). At 57:30 second shows a great example how every voice has a different role, but still manages to sound amazing.

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   1. i agree with this comment, harmony is the cure for the tone if you ask me.

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   2. I agree that harmony is fascinating. If you look at 24’52 the way harmony is use really caught my attention.

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   3. i agree 100% with your statement because if you really think about everything being played at once it could get very messy and sound offbeat. Its amazing how so many different instruments and voices go together as one.

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   4. Hi. I would agree with that. How harmony keeps the whole piece together is interesting. Kind of like a binder keeping a book together.
      What is interesting is that, harmony in the video is explained as vertically appearing in music, just as a binder appears in a book.
      Toward the end of the video, the examples of Bach’s music were very complicated pieces. Definitely polyphonic. layer of layer of melodies, which, according to the video are thought of as appearing horizontally, all held together with matching, harmonic glue.

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   5. i definitely agree with this. He knew the exact amount each part of the music needed to create a perfect melody and harmony even though many different things were going on at one. He made the music sound pleasant on the ears and made each theme easy to understand.

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   6. i agree with this, using harmony made the music sound balanced

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   7. I agree that harmony is very important in setting the ‘mood’ for a song.

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2. Counterpoints!! This is the most interesting thing so far that I found in the tv program about music. Counterpoints introduces so much to music. This form of music strings together multiple lines of melodies by taking some notes out of one line to make the song flow as shown in 20’25. It stands out to me because it can change the whole emotion of one song when put together with another. Another thing that stood out to me is the way it could be used to form music. 24’52 it shows that a song can have horizontal sound and the vertical sound which is harmony.

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   1. I agree with you comment 100% I found it intriguing how one adjustment can change the entire emotion of the song

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   2. I thought counterpoints was really interesting too because of the way he put two different melodies together, but taking some notes out and turning it into one melody.

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3. What I found most interesting in this video was the Organ Music in 12;13- 12:30 because it remind me about about old movies like Dracula and Addams Family . We rarely hear music like these now a day it was nice to hear something different for once, gave me a sense of what the pass is about :).

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   1. The music was so dramatic. It reminded me of halloween. I can not picture this music during this time period.

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      1. Hi.
         I believe you can find an example of Bach’s music in a song of our time period. The band Blondie has used the beginning of a Bach piece in one of their songs. How great is this band? They combine Baroque era music with rock and rap.
         check it out, the song is called No Exit, from the c d of the same title. You might find the lyrics good as well.

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   2. I have to agree with you. It does bring back some memory and also the black and white. I thought it was fun to look at them.

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   3. I felt the same way. It’s like Grieg’s Morgenstemning – something you hear all the time in cartoons and whatnot when you’re a kid. I never really thought about the origins of the piece or who composed it, I just heard it and associated it with some stereotypical commercialized Halloween decorations.

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   4. when the piano was playing it reminded me of a video game, Luigi’s mansion, a very old game, it gave it that creepy feeling to it. The fact that this video is in black and white, it made the tone of the music a sense of suspense !

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   5. I went back to listen to it and you’re absolutely right. It reminded me of a game I used to play called Castlevania. Definitely brought back memories of my childhood. I haven’t heard anything like this in a while.

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4. I think this type of music have a significantly value, but it was quiet interest. I also learned was 12 instruments in the music. I think the music is great and different.

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   1. definitely did learn about many different instruments.. very interesting.

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5. since i am in dominican republic i could not use your link it said it was not viewable in my area? so i looked it up on google and found this website which let me see it in form of episodes..
   http://www.medici.tv/#!/leonard-bernstein-omnibus-the-music-of-johann-sebastian-bach

   what really stood out to me was EPISODE6 because in this episode the motion and emotion of the music was put in different ways.For example, the way in which he played the music made it have less warmth less emotion and more of just motion, it would then be played in 3 different types of ways with different feelings.

   Also what was really brought out in this episode was that knowing music is not knowing about the composers life but its about knowing the music itself what is trying to be said.

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6. Before Bernstein was able to really listen to Bach’s music, he described his compositions as being “more like motion than emotion.” I’m going to have to agree with him as an individual who does not listen to classical music as often as pop music. To my inexperienced ears, the less obviously dramatic pieces simply sound like a rush of notes that goes on and on.

   “Perhaps the main reason..is that his music is not obviously dramatic. We have been so spoiled by music written since Bach’s time…that we have come to expect drama of one sort or another in music…”

   We are more accustomed to the very obvious differences in genres and we listen to the lyrics to inform us of what the artist is trying to convey. However, in the orchestral performances of Bach’s compositions, it is a “constant elaboration, reiteration, and discussion of [that] main event.. [Once the theme is stated at the beginning, the main event is over]” and because of that, we are disappointed and get easily bored.

   Music from 200+ years ago boast simultaneous melodic lines but the music we are now more accustomed to (less than 200 years old) are played in chords (this gives us the harmony). Harmony can be seen as a vertical line as opposed to the horizontal line of contrapuntal, which both primitive music and present-day jazz are made of. This is also why I feel that a lot of whom consider themselves “music listeners” should actually refer to themselves as “lyric-&-chorus listeners,” (myself included, if I’m just casually listening.)

   As much as I appreciate Bernstein’s musical abilities, he seemed a bit conspiracy-theory inclined. From the mathematical additions of the letters in Bach’s name, to the number of notes in his final composition before his death. At 8’23, Bernstein described Bach’s music as “the most subtle and universal force in the whole history of music.” But to be honest, that particular statement made me think, “Maybe to you.” For those who do not believe in Jesus or know the events in the Bible, how would they then interpret Bach’s music?

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   1. Hi. yes that issue about not knowing about Christianity could get in the way. If you have free time, may I suggest reading one of the versions of the Christian Bible. King James or New International Version. In particular, read the texts that pertain to the music. You might find it interesting, or boring, depending on your perspective. Of course this is all subjective.

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      1. That is a very interesting point!, Bernstein does in all fairness seem pretty bias in his affection for Bach seeing how he was studying his music since he was 17 years old. However I believe to truly express what Bach is to musical evolution and how understated he was even after his death we needed an over the top type of narrator to get (some of) the ideas Bach across on an intellectual and on an inspiring level.

         To address your point on Christianity and those of us who were not raised Christian or have limited knowledge on your religion I wanna first say I initially felt the same way.
         I looked this video from inception from a different lens than I normally would because A, i have to be analytical and B, it was shot in an era where life was different. America during the 50’s went through an era of unity and one of those unifying factors was Christianity. Its why Bernstein is talking in a secular manner on what seems to be a non-secular show.

         Most importantly, what I took away from the whole idea was that Bernstein believed Bach was at his core a man of faith which gave him this ability to create in such vivid detail. regardless of singing of stories of old or biblical there was emotion that could be felt at even the simplest levels like the ones of suspense of “Lord is it I?” or Anger and Grief when they call for “Thunder” and “lightning”.

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7. I find extremely interesting and pleasing to the ears how Bach used Harmony along with Counterparts to create such a beautiful sound. In part 5’9 through he breaks this down and shows us the audience how he creates such sound. With instruments like the violin, trumpets,flute;etc. Following this we are introduced to counterpoints,which is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent. But also have there own rhythm. What I also love about his music is its versatility you can change its theme and contrast with his music. Although his music was based on the argumentative technique. Bach’s music was very deep for his time. I believe he evolved music back then.

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   1. I definitely agree with his advancements of his time! its a shame he wasn’t recognized during his lifetime.
      The “versatility” of his music and being able to carry out of these melodies of once screams a polyphonic texture to me.

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8. I found it interesting how an expert and a lover of music seemed very straight forward about his likes and dislikes of Bach’s music. He says that only one peace of music moved him which was the Italian Concerto, and no other piece moved him like that one did. I can relate to that statement as many of my favorite artists like The Beatles, The doors, The Monkeys, etc. all have one song that have grasped me at my core and made me retouch memories, feelings and thoughts I’ve had. I also like the way Berstein talks about Bach and his genius as if he were to be telling us what Bach would say about his own music.

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   1. haha , i can totally agree with you on that Bernstein is pretty much straightforward. He basically told us why some us may find his music very boring.I myself didn’t enjoy music like this until taking this course.I need to listen to The doors and The monkeys, they have very interesting names lol.

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9. Bernstein calling music “Bach’s religion” really stood out to me. I took it to mean that music was something Bach was wholly dedicated to and it permeated the entirety of his short life.

   I especially found this interesting because of the way Bernstein conducted the orchestra at the beginning of the episode. The performers went through the sheet music as it was at first, but Bernstein made changes to the way each part was played (notably, the removal of slurs in one of the violin sections) to fit his vision. In that sense, he wasn’t “religiously” conducting to the sheet music, but interpreting the music based on what he believed fit Bach’s style of composition.

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   1. Maybe he changed the music a little because of the acoustics in the hall where they were playing? Maybe some instruments could not be heard because other peoples instruments were being played too loud?
      Maybe they were not playing it to the standard of how it was supposed to be played? Maybe the slur was a mistake in the sheet music and needed to be removed? Perhaps it was all a show to make the video more exciting?

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   2. In regards to the beginning of the episode, its more of a putting the finishing touches on a piece. As a band member in high school we had to adjust our dynamics or accents on a note based on acoustics and because we are human, its very difficult to get an entire piece 100% perfect let alone a piece by Bach. so I don’t think it was more of a change than adjustment to be more uniform with what is supposed to be.

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10. What I found the most interesting is how blunt and honest Leonard Bernstein was when he conversed about Bach’s music. When he said society usually think Bach’s music is dull and boring because we know nothing about it. Since Bach’s music is completely different from the music being played on the radio. To really understand and appreciate Bach’s music we have to learn about the complexity of it. I also thought it was cool how the twinkle twinkle little star was a old French folk song in the past called ” Ah, Vous Diari-je Maman”, it shows how music can change and adapt over time.

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    1. I agree with tamara on how people in todays society find instrumental music as boring and hardly anyone listen to it,where back in the day thats all that was played on the radio.In todays society theres very few people that know Bach’s music or any other greatest Musicians and Composers.

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       1. I agree with both of you guys as well. I myself used to find music like this very boring and dull, because I’m closed minded about my music , and only like listening to what I’m already used too. I never thought how much effort goes into creating such beautiful piece of music. Also taking in account about Tom and Jerry using the same structure of music made me appreciate it even much more! good thing while taking this class my musical taste is getting broader haha.

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11. What I found significant is Leonard Bernstein organized such a hard and challenging piece of music so well. This piece of music was interpreted that the Harmony was beautifully put together like a puzzle following a pattern. When listening to this short film and the different piece of music played by Leonard Sebastian Bach I felt like it was an episode of tom and jerry mines the speaking.Tom and Jerry uses music to control whats happening in the episode like if Tom is running they use the piano to show that. I feel that this film shows how important a piece of music like this was, which is not the case in todays world.

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    1. I agree with you #arrinakandic, that so took me back to watching that show and all you were able to hear was the music/instruments.

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    2. i agree it does remind me of tom an jerry when tom and jerry hurts them self the the music plays. it also reminds me of the 1950 batman and robin were they show music in the action scenes

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12. what enjoyed most of Leonard Bernstein, is that he is so articulate with sound of each instrument. He wants every instrument to be heard loud and clear. The way you were able to see the passion with in his face, like there is no where else he rather be. Way in the beginning 6:54 I felt that it was coming together, but he felt the need to lower some of the instrument to allow the flutes (2x) to be heard with in the music.

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13. i really enjoyed the music, i found it interesting how most of bach’s music had motion and not emotion. when he added in harmony it brought balance. i also found it weird how the choir was dressed.
    Leonard Bernstein really broke down bach’s music in a way that i can understand it.

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14. The episode really goes in depth about sound in music, specifically the harmony, the tempo, and even dynamics, especially around the 5 minute mark. You see the composer instructing the musicians on what notes to play, how loud to play them, and for how long they will be played. This episode does a great job explaining Johann Bach’s roll in creating music with every aspect unique and in tune.

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15. At the beginning of this episode, I enjoyed how it started off with a group of players and how they were all playing. As Leonard Bernstein was directing everyone, he gave a breakthrough of how each instrument sounds when the others are not playing. Moving forward,(27:34), it starts explaining how music played such an important rule in the churches, example they gave us the Lutheran church, reflecting back on history classes I have taken, it is true, a main focus we would talk about is that music did play a role in the church. In chapter 9, they talk about the different types of instruments, violin,viola,cello,double bass, in the episode we see the different uses of those instruments and how they each sound, the textbook does a great job in explaining it thoroughly.

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16. Hi everyone.

    I found the video to be extremely interesting. I’ve always liked music,
    but i used to shy away from that type of music. I probably did so because
    i found it boring. As a music lover on occasion i would buy some recordings of the Classical, or Baroque eras. Some works i found pretty,some exciting.
    However, it took this class and this video to set me on the proper pathway to understand and finally enjoy this type of music.

    In the beginning of the video we see a young Leonard Bernstein.
    i fund that to be very refreshing. I’m used to seeing pictures of composers in their older days.

    So, we find Leonard Bernstein conducting an orchestra, i think it was the magnificat that they were playing. I found it interesting that he could pick apart individual instruments and his ear could break down the music right down to the very note values themselves. He asked a musician to play his
    longest sixteenth note. That is extraordinary.

    Next we find Mr. Bernstein explaining Bach’ s music. He admitted that he himself found it boring and in fact, tried changing it. He realized that he didn’t understand it. when he understood it he then began to see it as not
    being boring. In the beginning he explains that Bach”s music at the time clung to the idea of having one idea and then exploring only that one idea.
    NO contrasting themes. This was the music that was starting to develop.
    To enjoy Bach’s music, we need to understand how Bach composed his music. Some people might find this approach less dramatic,however Bernstein explains what to look for in the music that makes it very dramatic.
    He explains this as the video unfolds. The aforementioned can be found in the first few minutes of the video.

    Next,Bernstein talks about different music by Bach. Notably, part of a piece
    was played on organ that was adapted by the Band, Blondie. The writer or writers of the song have incorporated Bach’s music into their song, which also has rap and rock also incorporated into it. I guess Blondie recognized good music and have co -opted Bach music into their own. This can be found at time frame 10:46.

    Around time frame 20:45 we find Bernstein discussing counterpoint, a technique used by Bach to make his music more interesting and richer.
    Counterpoint being the technique of one melody with one or more melodies occurring with it. Bach was a master at this and in addition, Bach ‘s melodies which can be thought of as occurring horizontally, where accompanied by rich harmonies, which can be thought of as occurring vertically in a piece. Bach had the ability to have his melodies line up in such a way to form chords, the vertical harmony. There are examples
    around time frame,25:01. At time frame 26:33 there is an example of Bach fusing harmony and counterpoint. Bach took a French folk song at the time and developed into a Chorale, a Lutheran church hymn that sounds like twinkle twinkle little star. I think he changed the words to, Lamb of God Most High. Bach also made chorale preludes. According to Bernstein is like a river flowing, interrupted by islands of counterpoint. An example of this is
    Jesu, the joy of mans desiring. This can be found at time frame 32:55.
    This is one of my favorite pieces. It’s really beautiful in my opinion.

    Bernstein goes on to say, Bach’s work can be classified into categories of:
    The Chorale, Chorale prelude, cannon and fugue. The cannon can be described by melodies imitating melodies. The fugue is comprised of cannons and can be thought of the most complicated of works.
    A complicated work,yet still a chorale is Bach’s The passion of St Mathew.
    According to Bernstein, this piece is very dramatic musically. The example given is at time frame 44:36. The music is very polyphonic. There is a lot going on here musically. Bach is trying to convey the point where Jesus is taken prisoner and is led away. 54:49.

    I was unaware that Bach was a religious man. I also didn’t know he was a
    mystic, believing in numerology as well. To me that’s very interesting.
    If you assign numbers to letters, they are symbolic to some people. When Bach added, or worked with numbers, they gave him significant meaning.
    The time frame this information can be found at is,45:15.
    However strange that he believed in numbers, he was a man of great Christian faith. His music was for praising God. Even when the music was dedicated to someone, the glory of the music still was dedicated to God.
    We can find this at time frame, 103:14.

    After listening to and viewing this very informative video, I am better able to discern the different parts of Bach’s music, understand it better and enjoy it.

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17. Something that Leonard Bernstein mentioned that really caught my attention was vertical and horizontal melodies. I like how each group of instruments had a different horizontal melody but when they play together at the same time, they make a vertical melody. This reminded me when i was in band back in elementary school and middle school, each instrument group would have a different melody. My music sheet would be different from the flutes, and theirs would be different from the trumpets, etc. Each individual melody sounds dull alone, but when you put it together vertically, it makes a rich melody. I think vertical and horizontal melody can apply to all types of music. For example, pop music wouldn’t be the same with just singing, they need several melodies in the background to accompany the singing.

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18. what i found that was interesting from this video was the Counterpoints. this form of music connects pieces of the cantus firmus of melodic lines to create a beautiful piece of music that we now see and hear on tv and even award shows. In 40’55 he put together two notes and put them together to illustrate a song that we know and love that’s announced in all big stature sports championship

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19. I like how Bernstein relates to the audience about how he wasn’t really interested in Bach’s type of music. He tried to get more into Bach’s music by altering the dynamics and tempo and thinking he was making it more dramatic. What really got me interested was how he explained counterpoint. He explains it as an art of fixing rules and notes and making two melodic lines mix well together. He adjusts a few notes and was able to mix “America” and “The Star Spangled Banner.” I learned melody is a horizontal line and harmony is a vertical line of notes.

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    1. What Bernstein did by taking an example of “The star spangled banner” to explain counterpoint was easily understood by me too. It was interesting how he changed notes in one of the melodies, to make the two melodies sound good together.

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20. Bernstein has done justice to Bach’s work, his great contribution to music, through this episode of Omnibus. And what stood out to me in this episode was when Bernstein talked about how Bach took the Chorale form and transformed it into even a richer form called the Chorale prelude. Bernstein takes a simple example of a flowing river (which is the instrumental piece of continuous texture) where its islands (which are the separate phrases) that appear from time to time, to explain its meaning. He further adds, “That is where the counterpoint comes in, land and water together”. This example of the river, with its isolated islands really helped me understand the concept of Chorale prelude. This video has made me appreciate the great works of Bach. It has also brought to my attention that it takes unity, dedication and time to bring a musical piece together. And as we move on with the course for the rest of the semester, I hope that I will be able to use what I have learned through this video to better understand music.

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    1. I coincide with you (raikaruna). Leonard Bernstein accomplished Bach’s work precise way. He was confident in what he was doing. I also liked that flowing river example. I think by simply listen to Bach’s music we can’t understand what’s going on in there we probably need a demonstrator like Bernstein.

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21. Hope everyone is enjoying good health. This episode was a great journey to understand Bach’s music. Leonard Bernstein did very proficient job. I especially liked that part when he described the theory of “contrast” (16’24). The principle of composition and duality. Contrast can refer to differences in tempo, pitch or texture (contrast have two different types which I mention in second paragraph). For example, someone might say that there is a marked contrast between the soft piano introduction and the energy of the chorus. Or, there may be a contrast between the up-beat and low-beat tempo. Essentially it refers to differences of tone, tempo, texture, rhythm, volume, timbre and so on.

    The second part which I liked the most was the two techniques. The argumentative or non dramatic technique (19’52) and the counterpoint (20’32) which my friend (njohn91) already talked about it. Counterpoint, this is one of my favorite technique when two or more than two melodies running at the same time and blended into each other and every melody has its own meaning.

    Bach’s music is complex and intricately perfect contrapuntal music, which also transcends beauty of his art. The contrast of melody, harmony, and counterpoint were so intertwined that it is difficult to tell where one leaves off and the other begins.

    In this episode most of his music contains as many as five melodies all harmonizing with each other at once. This combination of original melodic style and masterful counterpoint forged a powerful influence on me especially.

    Thank you

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    1. I like how you talk about contrast in your comment. I found Bernstein’s way of explaining the concept very interesting too. Bernstein further relates contrast to drama; “That contrast is what makes music dramatic, the principle of composition/ the principle of duality of two themes, two contrasting ideas or emotions within a single movement”.

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22. “Bach! A colossal symbol.” Even that sentence is an understatement to the genius that is Bach. It’s true what he says, I didn’t know Bach the composer well. Perhaps very little if anything of his lifestyle. And yes, I found his music boring because it fell into the realm of “oh, is that opera music?, next!”. This idea of needing simple music so we can easily understand it has been ingrained in me for the most part. Like Bernstein said, Bach was not (superficially) dramatic, as we expect music to be. Living in the age of information his words echo even more than then with this concept of contrast. We need gratification now, even our ears, and so we (and I do use we, to incorporate myself and general trends I see our society taking, not my fellow bloggers) need this contrast immediately, while Bach introduces one at a time, clear, concise and fully developed.
    The whole hour long show was systematically built to show this overarching theme of texture. You take different parts of music Bernstein is explaining to us, (15’05) with rhythmic distortion, it’s fascinating yet only just a tiny piece to the infinite size of complexities that Bach has created. Yet, Bernstein takes these bits and pieces and merges them into corner stones that defines Bach’s music.
    First of which is Counterpoints. Moving back from today’s single Melody with a Harmony we have two independent melodies whose notes line up perfectly to produce an even greater depth of music. I found that revolutionary until 25’10 when I learned of Vertical Sound. This crossword puzzle as Bernstein put it is so complex with 4 melodies playing independently but together they create a 5th element, harmony. I see this idea of counterpoint as a perfect relationship. Both people are strong and independent on their own capable of great feats just like Bach’s melodies. Merge them together they become a power couple were potential is limitless.
    The River and Island explanation of how the Chorale and Counterpoints do a sort of ebb and flow in Bach’s music show yet another element to texture. Now for my favorite part of this video was the explanation and evolution of the Canon through Bach’s work. As it develops into the Fugue, Melody’s take on a sense of being human, starting with one person and their thoughts then passing it off to another person with different expressions yet all together they come to a singular conclusion. Being able to manipulate the field of music to such a degree allows Bach to tweak even the small touches such as the manipulation of the word weak in the Saint Matthew Passion.
    To wrap everything into a nice bow, Bach takes texture as levels to a building and by putting it all together instead of having a wonderful red brick home, you have a building that looks like it belongs in Copenhagen. Something so unimaginable and brilliant that it even defies the laws of gravity.

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    1. I concur with your assessment of counterpoint. Counterpoint is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent, but it is independent in tempo and meter. Leonard also mention that counterpoint came before harmony.

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23. Wow this video definitely made my musical taste much broader for sure haha.What really got my attention was how Bernstein stated that the music of Bach to him didn’t show much emotions at first rather motions to him. Since I’m fairy new to this classical music thing, this caused me to slow down and just think about the music slowly in my head. And try to figure what kind of emotion I’m getting out of the music. Also theirs a lot of effort that goes in this music to create this. Every instrument has to be on point, they have to be in rhythm in order perfect the music.Bernstein also mentions how many people like to refrain from counterpoint (20’00 to24’00) because its complex and it includes more than one melody. Even though he said its harder to write and hear, but i believe it puts more emotions to the song.When he talked about the vertical harmony that caught my eye as well. Because with counterpoint you notice more vertical harmonies.

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